By dirk on Sep 5, 2018 at 4:02 PM
  1. dirk

    dirk CI-Founder

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    There are rumors on the internet, that Panansonic will announce end of September a fullframe camera parallel to its MicroFourThird system. As an addition, not as a replacement to the MFT system.

    According to these rumors, it will not use the Leica SL lens mount, but rather a new lens mount. Also the sensor seems not to come from Sony.

    Do you think it is a good move from Panansonic, to offer next to MFT also a fullframe system?
     
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Discussion in 'MicroFourThirds' started by dirk, Sep 5, 2018.

    1. snowy

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      Interesting. Personally I doubt there's enough of a market to support so many different and incompatible FF mirrorless systems, and the inevitable result will be that some will fail and be dropped, much like Nikon dropped the 1 series. If Panasonic and Olympus join forces like they did with Micro-4/3 then maybe they'll be one of the systems that will survive?
       
    2. dirk

      dirk CI-Founder

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      I do not think so. Thanks to mirrorless, the production costs will be lower than with DSLRs, so you can offer it cheaper and more people will buy it. Same for the production of FF sensors. The economies of scale will be huge compared to the time before Canon and Nikon entered the market for fullframe MLU.

      I do not believe that Olympus will offer fulframe. At least there is no rumor about it. Panasonic has a lot more money to offer this parallel to its MFT system. Last but not least you have to bear in mind, that Sony has a 25+ % stake in Olympus. I guess Sony is the largest shareholder of Olympus. I do not think that Sony wants Olympus to enter the FF-market. They can not forbid it Panasonic, but they will not allow to make the position of Panasonic even stronger by allowing Olympus to offer FF too.

      Thanks to Smartphones, more people than ever get interested in photography. As soon as products will be available, which offer the same convenience to share images at an affordable price and good lens selection, more poeple will use it additionally to their Smartphone.

      Yes, but Nikon failed to develop the system so that it offers a significant advantage to use it. I used to have the Nikon 1 System. I loved it. But lenses were as big as MFT lenses, some even heavier and Nikon failed to set the prices low enough to get better volumes to sell. Same as now with the Z6/Z7, Nikon still tries to protect its DSLR business. They do not understand, that if they do not do it, others will do and get the money.

      I do think MFT and fullframe is an ideal combination side by side from the perpective of a producer. Large enough steps inbetween regarding image quality and portability. Fujis attempt with APS-C and Medium Format is more risky, since MF requires a lot more money and the sizes are significantly bigger so that for the majority of photographers just for the size alone, it does not make sense.
       
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    3. biggles3

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      I can see that camera makers are recognising the need to differentiate their products from the increasing sophistication of mobile-phone capabilities and to that end, MF offers a significant enhancement in both image quality and flexibility BUT I am not sure that there is a sufficient market of professionals and wealthy amateurs that would be prepared to invest in another lens system. OK, existing m4/3 users would probably get an adapter allowing the new MF lenses to be used on their cameras but if you are an existing m4/3 user, are you going to abandon the benefits of the small sensor (smaller, lighter bodies and lenses) in favour of carrying around a much larger body and a few, more hefty lenses. For studio use, not an issue but Panasonic has never captured the professional market and to be fair to them, they've not really courted it. Fuji, Hasselblad and Pentax have a long history in MF photography and that helps to inspire confidence but you can't say that of Panasonic; professional togs, given the cost of MF gear, can't afford to risk reliability or a speedy exit from the market by a manufacturer. However, if Panasonic could find a way of bringing the entry level cost down considerably compared with other systems, they might attract the more serious amateurs and that would significantly increase the potential for meaningful sales. It would certainly help if they were able to utilise an existing lens mount which would reduce their development costs and make it more appealing to consumers. Given the high costs associated with introducing a completely new system to a crowded market, and the limited market for MF gear, I would be surprised if Panasonic entered the market on its own; if it could find a partner/partners as with FourThirds, it might be more viable. Personally, I'd love to see them try but the cost of failure could be terminal; never forget the fate of Contax following their creation of the world's fist full frame DSLR!
       
    4. dirk

      dirk CI-Founder

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      I do think this is an important point. It will be only risky for Panasonic, if they put their ego above business sense. Contax failed because the put too much effort to be the best from day1 on in a fast changing market and at very high prices. They should have better started with the cheaper APS-C sized sensors and as soon as they gain more volume then enter fullframe later.

      Also the lens selection in the first years of their Contax N Digital system was not smart. Fuji did this a lot better. 3 good and affordable primes and broaden that later on with zooms etc.

      But I do think Panasonic will be smarter. My guess is that they target the Sony A7s customer first. Panasonic has an excellent know-how for video. Once they gain also that reputation with fullframe sensors, they can broaden the product line with mor still photography oriented cameras.

      Panasonic has the money and the know how to do it. As long as they offer parellel also in the future MFT, I am happy with every effort that will increase competition. :z04_smilieparty:
       
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    5. biggles3

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      My apologies - I should not have referred to MF gear as it was MFT you mentioned; you quite rightly pointed out that Panasonic is rumoured to be bringing a full frame camera to market - not a Medium Format... Doh! But the points still stand about the risks of yet another lens mount... It will be interesting to see how Canon does with its full frame mirrorless. As Panasonic'c first target market is likely to be people who have already bought their top-end MFT cameras, it is vital that the new lenses (the camera is likely to have a bigger throat) can be used on MFT bodies via an adapter. Success is going to be determined in part by their price-point - certainly undercutting Canon's new entries unless they have significantly more impressive specifications. And your point about lenses is well made - Fuji got it right from the very start and now has a very impressive range. 3 primes and a 24-80 kit-zoom might be a sensible starting point.
       
    6. dirk

      dirk CI-Founder

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      Panasonic is doing this always with MFT :D

      Better specs for less money than Olympus. I am sure if Panasonic comes out with fullframe at all, it will be a pricebreaker with excellent features compared to similar products from CaNikon and Sony.

      Yes, 3 primes with apertures something between F1.4 and F2.0 to kepp it small, light, affordable and with very good image quality.

      Plus an above average consumer zoom (like the Fuji XF18-55) in the range of 24-75mm. This is how I would do it :blush:
       
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