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By dirk on Oct 28, 2017 at 1:07 PM
  1. dirk

    dirk CI-Founder

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    Adobe announced that the successor of Lightroom 6 will be only available as a cloud version and only if you rent it via a monthly subscription. No standalone version anymore.

    Adobe also changed the name scheme. From Lightroom 7 to Lightroom CC, which is basically a less feature loaden Lightroom 6 version and another version called Lightroom Classic CC, which has the same features as Lightroom 6 plus some new ones and comes always in a package with Photoshop, whether you need/want it or not does not matter.

    There will be no Lightroom 7 only anymore and no non-subscription based software anymore from Adobe. So either you rent it from Adobe, or you need to look somewhere else. This caused a lot of discussions on the net and many photographers look now seriously for alternatives.

    I am neither a fan of subscription based software. If I can afford it, I buy it. I want to own the software because I want to have the ability also to use the edits in LR in 10 years time without beeing forced to pay Adobe money to have access to my old edits.

    The whole industry is now finally waking up. DXO just announced its successor of DXO11, which is called now DXO Photolab. Why did they also change the name? Because DXO bought Nik Software drom Google and implented this already into this new version. With this step, DXO is now more than a simple RAW converter. Thans to this you can now also do local adjustements with this new UPoint technology of Nik Software. A big step for DXO users.

    I would not be suprised of DXO will ofer soon als an addon-package for DAM (Digital Asset Management) to be able to offer an alternative to Lightroom librarries/DAM.

    The Noise reduction of DXO is really famous. A lot better than LR. And for many cameras the RAW converter of DXO is also better the Adobes ACR.

    If you have already an older DXO version, you can upgrade to the newest DXO version (called not DXO12 but DXO Photolab) until the end of November for only 69.- Euro. This is a bargain for these additional features.

    The only downside of DXO is that they do not offer RAW conversion for Fuji X-Trans RAW files.

    So it is really getting interesting with this move from Adobe. The competition realizes now, that this is now the best time to motivate old LR to switch to other products.

    I do expect from Phase One the new version of Capture One Pro within the next 2 months. Usually a new version of C1 is coming out around December. C1 offers already a DAM, but in the past it was not on par with the DAM of LR. I am sure this gap will narrow down further with each new version. The RAW converter of C1 is famous and especially for Fuji X-Trans RAW files, many photographers prefer C1 over Adobe ACR.

    But there are others too, which want to have a piece of the PP cake. Affinity, ACDsee, ON1 etc. pp.

    What do you think? Do you use Lightroom at the moment? Are you planning to switch?
     
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Comments

Discussion in 'Software (Postprocessing/ image editing)' started by dirk, Oct 28, 2017.

    1. BW79ST

      BW79ST New Member

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      I still have not used Lightroom as Bridge fills my needs nicely. It's worth it to me to have Photoshop CC, Bridge, and ACR always up to date for just $10 per month. Nevertheless, if I ever want to use Lightroom I have it available. As for now, my Mac can find any string of letters in an XMP file so it's relatively painless to search for a given file's saved information.
       
    2. afshalders

      afshalders New Member

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      Hi ! I gave up on all Adobe programs about two years ago because of 3 main reasons. First is because there are far better options out there. Second, their engines are slow (yes they are) and finally I would NEVER use a subscription based software. And ACR is far from be the best raw engine.

      For DAM, I use Phase One's Media Pro. It's the best one, period.

      For raw developing, LR always sucked, sorry. Depending on the raw type, I use four programs:

      - For Bayer sensors, DxO Optics Pro Elite. Nothing get even close to it.

      - For X-Trans sensors the best one this date is Silkypix Pro 8E. If well used, it can deliver sharper images than Iridient Developer, but you need to read the documentation. Iridient is also great but its interface is absolutely awful and it's very, very slow. RawTherapee is capable of stunning results but the learning curve is extremely steep, it's a very complicated software.

      I don't like C1. It's not bad, but VERY expensive for what it offers. Silkypix and Iridient deals with X-Trans much better than C1. For Bayer sensors, DxO wipes the floor with C1.

      Affinity Photo is a stunning program. It wins PS/LR in absolutely all aspects and it's blazing fast. It's possible to use almost all the PS plug-ins on it.

      Adobe is like a religion for some people. But who cares ?
       
      #3 afshalders, Oct 28, 2017
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    3. biggles3

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      I have a profound hatred of any process that requires access only via a Cloud service - even more so when it demands a subscription. Not only am I aware of problems associated with server outages making access temporarily impossible but we also see regular press stories of hacked sites in the Cloud. I want to have all my files accessible, and programs, 24/7 on a PC of my choosing.

      I gave up on Photoshop a long time ago and Lightroom too. For general work I have been using Paint Shop Pro for many years, upgrading regularly and am currently using PSP 2018 with After Shot and am delighted with the results both in terms of the quality of image refinement and workflow. I also use Hasselblad's Phocus and Flexcolor for my MF Ixpress backs and Capture One for my old Phase One tethered back. I have not experienced issues with RAW conversions as PSP updates very regularly and handles Fuji and Olympus images with equal aplomb.

      Given the enormous flexibility of Corel's Paint Shop Pro software and its easy, customisable workface, I'm surprised that it is so rarely mentioned in the mainstream photographic media. Thankfully, Corel continues to offer this program as a standalone - no subscription required for this superb software - and in the Ultimate version, the extra free programs are worth more than the price of the PSP. What's not to like? So, for me, Adobe has permanently lost a customer - and that also applies to Acrobat.
       
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    4. jeffs

      jeffs New Member

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      I was very disappointed and upset by the major price increase to the Adobe CC suite this year. Now I'm paying over $50 a month for a few primary apps I need to use. I'm o.k with subscriptions, as I would always update to the latest PS or LR version every year, but the subscription rates are becoming too high, and they will definitely lose customers. There are a lot of other excellent RAW developers out there including C 1 Pro which I also use, so Adobe should be concerned of what this will do to their customer base. I personally don't like to be locked in, which is fully in the favor of the developer, not the customer.
       
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    5. CleanLivin

      CleanLivin New Member

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      I agree with much of what afshalders comments are, especially the comments about subscriptions. I am completely against them as I understand their motive as a prior software developer on the Cray and SGI platforms. It is just a revenue generator and you can have a stable revenue stream even when you are not making advancements. I consider it a sham. As to the best alternative to it, I have none, so I stick with LR 6 and PS6 license, not CC. I shoot GFX 50s and have yet to find a developer that I like. Moved from decades of Hasselblad to Fuji, but still looking for a RAW developer I like on the Fuji.
       
      #6 CleanLivin, Oct 28, 2017
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    6. highdetail

      highdetail New Member

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      I use Raw Therapee V4.0 which is free
       
    7. CleanLivin

      CleanLivin New Member

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      I'll take a look at it this weekend - thanks.
      I tried Iridient, didn't care for it.
      Have used Capture One and don't like their work flow.
       
    8. Pierre32

      Pierre32 New Member

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      Try Luminar and/or Aurora, which have among their designers folks from Nik software. I use LR 6.10 less and less and am waiting for their version of cataloging and files structure, which they say is coming, so I can switch out of LR. I was forced into LR by Apple's ending support of Aperture. Aperture, to me, had a much simpler file system. These packages were originally Mac-centric but are now offering PC as well.
       
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    9. afshalders

      afshalders New Member

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      Apple's support for Aperture may ended, but it's still working very well on Sierra and the good thing is that the raw engine is bonded to the OS, not Aperture itself, so this is not a big deal.

      Add to this full support of Nik's plug-ins and other good ones like Noiseware Professional , DxO Viewpoint and FilmPack, plus one of the best search tool ever, Aperture still rocks. The only reason to leave it is if some day it stops working with a newer OS version. But who said you need to update your OS to a newer version every time Apple tells you ? This is nonsese, for example I have lots of installed software (paid ones) that may not be compatible with newer OS versions and for sure Apple will not pay for any needed software upgrade. So, it's always wise to ponder what to do.

      And to be honest, Apple's raw engine is very good and fast. Even it is better with X-Trans files than ACR.
       
    10. afshalders

      afshalders New Member

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      If someone need a low cost DAM (and don't like Digikam or Darktable), please check Corel Aftershot Pro. It works reasonably well, and it's also a very fast simple raw converter. If you don't need heavy voodoo it's something to try.
       
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    11. art2

      art2 New Member

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      Started out with Photoshop; remember when a copy of Photoshop Elements was included "in the box" in the early days of digital cameras? Over the years, have tried a few of the other options (Irfan, RawTherapee, GIMP, etc.) but kept coming back to Photoshop; call it familiarity.
      I have tried ON1 and continue to use it for certain finishes. Although there are a lot of "actions" available in Photoshop I find the ON1 option easier to use. I haven't yet got to the comfort level of using ON1 to fully process and replace Photoshop although I am concerned with Adobe's subscription tactics.
      Most recently, due to pricing, have ceased using Adobe Acrobat Professional as it's annual subscription fee is beyond rationale. I am sure this tactic will ultimately work its way through all of Adobe's product offering, it's only a matter of time.
      So, for the time being, I will continue to use Adobe Bridge (shoot everything in RAW format) to process with Photoshop to finish the image (if necessary).
       
    12. Pierre32

      Pierre32 New Member

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    13. Pierre32

      Pierre32 New Member

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      Thanks for your input. What I'm trying to do is to simplify post-processing into one principal app, adding plug-in processing according to which has best and simplest capability. The principal app would have quick, easy cataloging/filing and of course good raw processing. LR filing, to me, is convoluted. Aperture is quick and easy...iPhoto seems simpler yet...and Aperture can use Nik, Luminar and Aurora as plug-ins. My major concern about using Aperture as the front end is that Apple may stop supporting it in subsequent OS's. And, of course, if I'd use Aperture or iPhotos as a front end...how would I switch back my current LR catalog/files. Any thoughts appreciated.
       
    14. dirk

      dirk CI-Founder

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      I think it is obvious that dobe is introducing in all products the subscription model to increase significantly its profits without adding costs. They do not need to invent new features and still get every year the new money for old licences ;)

      This is why I do not support this kind of business model. If you think about it, only every 18-24 months there will be normally a new LR release out there with new features. So that alone makes the subscription model a lot more expensive than an payed stand alone version upgarded every 18-12 months für only 79.- Euro.

      Additionally, not everyone need these new features in every new version. Therefore you save a lot of money if you do not upgrade each time and wait for the next release which might have then worthwile new features you are interested in. Same with RAW support. You do not buy every 12 months a new camera. So there is neither the need for upgrading.

      If you think about it, the sensor technology advanced already so much, that the "good-enough" level is reached already for most of us. But if we only buy new cameras thanks to this every 4 years or even more seldom, there is neither the need for a new LR version.

      No matter how you look at it, this new subscription model for lightroom is a very expensive offer for the user. I rather invest that money in new lenses or photo trips.

      I keep my LR6 standalone licence as long as I have to and will then switch as soon as I find a "good-enough" alternative. I will not upgrade LR. :z04_nein1:

      I also have now the new DXO PhotoLab licence and I will look into other additional options like C1 or others. The times are exciting with so many alternatives popping up now... :z04_carrot:

      Keep the ideas coming here so that everybody can share his experience with different alternatives in this thread... :daumenhoch_smilie:
       
    15. dirk

      dirk CI-Founder

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      I would not recommend in making bets how long aperture is supported. It is always like that in life: The change comes when you do not have the time to make your research and the transmission to another software. It is better to watch out now and find an alternative to switch to i.e. in 6 months than being forced by Apple to do that at a later inconvenient time...
       
    16. afshalders

      afshalders New Member

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      It's not a matter of how long Apple will support Aperture, but if you need or not to change your OS every time a new version is released. For example, I have 5 Macs here and neither one is running Sierra or High Sierra, but El Capitan and I'll keep using it unless I have a very solid and good reason to change. Why ? Simply because I don't need any "news" that came in High Sierra. My present OS is working 100% well.

      Adobe is using the same tactics narcos use. They created lots of addicted users and now they're charging back. It's this simple. In the long run, CC cloud will cost you a leg and an arm.

      The only Adobe program I still have here is PS Elements 11 just in case, IF I need or want to try some plug-ins. Believe me Affinity really rocks and makes PS and LR eat dust in any aspect.

      Adobe is dead to me.
       
    17. mypointofview

      mypointofview New Member

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      I am on a Mac and I'm testing alternatives to LR and I hate the subscription model of Adobe. However, the publishing functionality in LR is fantastic and I cannot find such feature in other software, yet.
       
    18. afshalders

      afshalders New Member

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      What do you need ?
       
    19. mypointofview

      mypointofview New Member

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      I need a LR alternative with a SmugMug upload function. In Lightroom I can easily upload my pictures and most importantly, modify the galleries in a snap. As you know, lots of online photo hosters offer LR publishing plugins, like Flickr or Shootproof to name a few.

      What I'm currently mostly looking for is a robust WordPress upload feature but that's perhaps too much asked for.
       

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