Sony to consider developing body for Contax N Mount

[dirk]

Hi Sony R1 owners,

since we talked here a lot about the Sony R1, I just wanted to ask for your experience. Maybe I am too dump to use an R1, but I am very disappointed with it. I just bought it 3 days ago.

Images are nice but firmware is a nightmare. Has anybody tried the auto-iso function in combination with aperture priority (A) or speed priority (S)

I made some snapshots today and tried some of thses combos.

1. ISO auto only works in the bandwith from ISO 160 up to ISO 400. Everything above is ignored by the firmware. I understand something else under the name "iso Auto". This is already strange.

2. and even worse, try to set speed to 1/125 or faster in speed priority (s) on a cloudy day (flash turned off). You will be surprised, that the firmware forces you to use ISO 160 making the image way too dark.

I wonder why speed priority with ISo auto is an option then, if the firmware ignores my "wish". Instead of increasing ISO setting (if lens is already at full aperture) to match the bad wheather, it makes the image with ISO 160 and therefore too dark? Any logic behind this?

Can you imagine how disappointed I was to see the results this evening?

Did I have overseen something here? Anybody else with this experience? I will send my R1 back, if this turns out to be the way how Sony thinks ISO auto & aperture and speed priority should work...

 

[zhanggf]

This are some Sony R1 photo i'm taken recently.
This is the first time i'm use the camera, and i'm really like it, until i'm "forget" to use my the other medium format 617 Panorama Camera

All photo taken with Aperture Priority and ISO 160, i'm not tested the Auto ISO, because i will never use the option, so i'm not even bother to test it.

 

[dirk]

Hi Cheamg,

lovely pix. Yes, the image quality is really good with the R1. I have seen in Exif data that you did these shots in aperture priority & ISO 160.

Have you experienced same problems as I described above with the R1?

Have you ever been able to shoot in iso auto setting & aperture priority so that the R1 was using ISO 400 or higher?

Or anybody else?

Thanks in advance

(addendum: sorry, I just saw now the comment above your images. For me ISO auto is very important, this is IMO one of the main advantages of digital imaging. I need it often in situations, in which I do not have the time to go back and forth in the menu while shooting i.e. family snapshots. Wheather in Germany is not that good. ISO setting above 200 is often used)

 

[zhanggf]

For quick snapshots, i would suggest you use the Program (P) setting in the camera. With this setting, you still can sellect the prefer aperture and let the camera set the rest.

Some other Sony R1 photos

 

[wang]

I never experienced those problems you describe as I have never use aperture priority or autoISO. I only use manual mode in R1.

The only thing I am not quite happy with the R1 is the telephoto part of the lens. Its maximal aperture is f4-4.5, but it does not generate results as good as my C-Y lenses such as 100mm f2 at f4.

However, the wide angle part of R1 is impressive. At 24mm,it can focus down to 35cm and produce sharp and contrasty images even at the corners. In order to produce similar results with a 5D, you might need Leica 35-21, which is a lot more expensive.

 

[dirk]

Hi Cheang,

I know that there are easier ways to make snapshots, but this is not how I want to use the camera.

I expect from a camera that offers aperture and speed priority in combination with ISO auto to work also properly in that way.

ISO automatic is a kind of very clear wording. It shall set the ISO automatically and shall get higher as soon as the other limiting factors do not guarantee otherwise a proper exposed picture.

This is the whole sense of ISO auto at all camera brands. If Sony forces you in ISO Auto always to use ISO 160, this is a unknown bug and has to be fixed or Sony does not know who they are targeting with this camera and lens.

I am sorry that this sounds harsh, but we have to be aware that Sony is planning to step into the DSLR market now and if they screw their reputation with things like this, nobody will take their efforts seriously anymore. They screwed once already with their communication in respect to the F828 Blooming issue. This is not the massmarket anymore, where you can afford to ignore user complaints. This is neither the market anymore, where you can afford to put products in the shelves that do not work properly. Canon and Nikon only wait for mistakes like this of Sony.

The Sony R1 is not a TC9 or other P&S. It is clearly targeted to the advanced amateur. This is why they have the APS size sensor in it, the great Zeiss zoom and an originally price tag of 1000 USD. So if they target this group and if they offer A, S and ISO Auto in the camera-menu, they have to be aware that the costumer wants to use this also properly.

I called yesterday the R1 hotline and they have no clou what the R1 is capable of and what not (camera-settings). They promised to call back, but did not yet. I do not want to call our other contacts to Sony for this, this would be "too much", but I am shocked about this, to say the least.

I will keep you updated. All I need to know is whether this is a problem of my R1 only, or with every R1 model the same. As soon as our Sony and Minolta forums are merged this week, I will post there the same question...

 

[dirk]

Hi Chi

thanks for this information. I think the image results are very good on the screen (I have not printed yet).

IMHO it would be unfair to expect a 14.3-71.5 Zoom on the long end to have simlar results as a FFL 100

From the point of view of image quality for this price and zoom range, I am very surprised (positive).

It is just the basic menu functionality, which could (if it turns out to be a bug) be easily corrected with a firmware update.

I would have liked a bigger aperture in the 35mm equivalent of 50mm. It is with the R1 around F4. But I guess this is the compromise for having very good image quality and low price of the R1. A zoom with a bigger aperture would have been bigger, heavier, more expensive and probably not as good in the final image...

 

[dirk]

... as a side note:

The reason why I am so "allergic/sensitive" with this, is our experience in the past.

If we assume that there will be a Sony DSLR with KM mount and Zeiss lenses in the future, Sony should make sure that they get the right "start".

We all had our bad experience in the past with the Contax brand, the communication and ignorance of user demand.

If Sony will target the same audience in the future, they better make sure, that everything is "perfect" right from the beginning.

I do not know how it is with all you guys, but I do not want to make the same experience with Sony in the future, like we had over the last 5-7 years with Contax in the past.

This is why I am extremely sensitive to this. Every little sign turns on a big red light on my desk.

The R1 is an ideal possibility for Sony to show what they are able to do and attract new costumers to their future DSLRs. But marketing goes - as we all know from the Contax times - in both ways, if you do not pay attention to it...

Sony has to gain our trust, if they want to get our money to invest into their new DSLR system. But trust has to be earned. The DSLR market is highly competitive and not all brands will survive.

I want to have strong signals, that Sony is really longterm committed to my target group. I do not want to invest in a brand, if it seems that the costumer is not taken seriously.

Who is guaranteeing me that Sony is not just "trying" something in the DSLR market and in 3 years, they suddenly change their mind and exit DSLR, focussing again on the mass market like all their other businesses?

How can I know this? I will never be able to "know" this. But I can look at indications, whether Sony takes "us/the advanced photographer" seriously or not. This is what I try to find out.

Buttom line: I want to make sure, to spend my money on the right place. I want to avoid the Bill Murray experience in the movie "Groundhog Day"

Just my 2 cents...

 

[wang]

I only use R1 at ISO160. It is alright at ISO400, but becomes "noisy" at ISO800.

By the way, I just brought a new Mac with Intel chip and Photoshop CS. I am quite impressed with the way you can achieve with the Photoshop. In order to compensate for the reduced dynamic range compared to film, you could shoot the same scene with tripod in different exposures with R1. With multiple images at different exposures you can get a film like image with good details in both highlights and dark areas.

 

[wang]

Hi Dirk, I understand your frustration in R1.

If you are using the automatic features of R1, it is difficult that Sony could satisfy everyone.

It is a general rule that when you rely on the camera to determine the basic variables like ISO, f-nos or aperture time, the camera makes wrong decisions no matter which brand you are using. I am sure it would be the same with other brands like Canon or Nikon.

I always have a gut feeling that the automatic functions of the camera are not as good as the human mind, this is why I decide for the camera instead of the other way round.

Dirk, you might be expecting too much from the camera. To me, I am in general very happy with my R1.